Torah taught in the style of secular education

[Cranberry]

Should it be taken for granted that in frum schools that teach both a Torah education and the secular knowledge required by the government, the Torah education should be taught in the Western schooling style? Why give the homework and tests for Chumash like for science and history?

[gamanit]

I'm not a believer in homework in general but oral tests have a longstanding history. Written tests are newer but probably mostly because paper is a lot cheaper.

[Cranberry]

There's a difference between having tests and teaching to the test.

[virtuosointraining]

Limudei kodesh are not usually taught "for the test", although there are tests. Oral tests would make sense, except it's not time efficient to test thirty + students orally.

[gamanit]

Not everything has to be efficient on paper. There are techniques to pass written tests but you need to actually know your work to be questioned on it orally

[virtuosointraining]

How can something be efficient in real life if it isn't efficient on paper? Fact is, there isn't a lot of time allocated toward testing. Instead, time is allocated toward actual learning. Tests are to make sure students are really paying attention. If a student has a problem taking written tests, it's more efficient to have a single student take a test orally than to have a whole class doing so.

[Cranberry]

This kind of "efficiency" should not be the goal of the education system. The education system should use all the resources it needs for an optimal education.

[gamanit]

How can something be efficient in real life if it isn't efficient on paper? Fact is, there isn't a lot of time allocated toward testing. Instead, time is allocated toward actual learning. Tests are to make sure students are really paying attention. If a student has a problem taking written tests, it's more efficient to have a single student take a test orally than to have a whole class doing so.

It's not about the students doing well on tests. The bigger issue is students doing too well on tests without internalizing the lessons. Torah learning isn't about numbers and dollars. It's supposed to be changing our middos which learning for tests isn't very good for.

[virtuosointraining]

How can something be efficient in real life if it isn't efficient on paper? Fact is, there isn't a lot of time allocated toward testing. Instead, time is allocated toward actual learning. Tests are to make sure students are really paying attention. If a student has a problem taking written tests, it's more efficient to have a single student take a test orally than to have a whole class doing so.

It's not about the students doing well on tests. The bigger issue is students doing too well on tests without internalizing the lessons. Torah learning isn't about numbers and dollars. It's supposed to be changing our middos which learning for tests isn't very good for.

The tests are to make sure that the students pay attention, and hopefully a passing grade shows they internalized the lessons.

[ChiefExecutive]

If all the students would listen and learn without tests your right. However since the fact is that not all students will learn like that therefor there must be tests. And what your saying that "Torah learning isn't about numbers and dollars" is true. However since "Mitoich shelloi lishma bu lishma" that alone is a good reason to teach torah this way.